Physical vs. Statistical Combat
EolirinXianve: Serafina... that makes it way to easy to accidentaly kill innocent people.
Serafina: EolirinXianve... yes, it is dangerous, but it allows for interaction with the envioronment. For example, you stand in front of a tree and swing... you hit the tree. We calculate the force of the swing and the location. Then it hits the material and the appropriate damage is done.
TheGoodReverend: gah, whatever you do don't make it a toggle combat mode, i think it should play just like an fps in combat (more or less) with an "attack innocent?" prompt like eol said and the ability to toggle that off
Serafina: Remember, this is a physics-based game, not a stats-only game. like TheGoodReverend said, we are trying to make it more like first-person shooters, but slower. we don't want it to be twitch. For example, we still put a combat move lag time in there.
Serafina: Bagricula... yes, we do it that way. It is a hybrid. We can't do 100% physical based, so it there is a hybrid stat-physics system being used.
EolirinXianve: Serafina, it's really important that you can't accidentally attack innocents, ESPECIALLY if you're new at the game.That'd result in a LOT of people dying very quickly.
Serafina: Right now, in the beta, combat is purely physics-based. We haven't added the hybrid stat part of it yet.
Serafina: EolirinXianve... that's why we think there will most likely be a "combat mode" switch with the default off

The Design
EolirinXianve: Okay, how does it work?
Serafina: You would choose your target.The computer would automatically orient your avatar to face the appropriate direction. Then you would execute the move. If the other person moves, then you miss
Serafina: We are trying to make combat realistic. If you go in a crowded building swinging a damn sword, then you are going to hit more than who you are aiming for unless you are the master of all masters
Serafina: I think it should work the same with Atriarch.
Serafina: If you are a bull in a China store, then people are going to be pissed.
Serafina: In other games, the stats tell what your likelihood of hitting something is.
Serafina: In Atriarch, a realistic simulation (at least we're trying), what determines if you make contact with something is actually, physically whether or not you make contact with something.
EolirinXianve: Serafina, the newbies need to have something that warns them of this or they're going to accidentaly attack people before they get used to it
Serafina: EolirinXianve... I agree with you.
TheGoodReverend: how about making the stats having a direct effect on the twitch. ie, hi dex = run faster, swing weapon faster
Serafina: TheGoodReverend... yes, the stats will affect the type of damage done.
EolirinXianve: I'm just worried about lagging slightly and being completely unable to hit the enemy
Bagricula: Serafina, will you necessarily turn toward the target? Shouldn't it be tied more with the action you execute?
Serafina: Bagricula... yes, it is tied to the move you execute
TheGoodReverend: plus say someone swings at you but you have massive evade skill, there could be a chance that even tho it looks like a hit it doesn't or the damage is minimal
EolirinXianve: Serafina, doesn't that mean a high dex character will be able to avoid just about anything you throw at them? mmm interesting.
Serafina: A sword can swing from many different directions and you may hit different people depending on the move. For simplicity sake, we have to abstract it at some point.

Multiple Source Attacks
Bagricula: Hmm, how will you do calculations for multiple attacks from different angles?
Serafina: stats determine very little in Atriarch. stats are just modifiers once physics has determined whether or not actual contact has been made
Bagricula: I mean...you can have all the dex in the world...but if I and my hundred friends all throw spears at you from all around you, I doubt you'll avoid them all. Would they be handled separately or simultaneously. Can you dodge into another spear?
Serafina: Bagricula... that's exactly why we are using physics
Bagricula: But wouldn't it be a hugely problematic equation? And the lag and all...
Serafina: Bagricula... we physically determine whether or according to the line of the spear whether or not it would hit. No more than collision detection
Serafina: You throw a spear. Does the spear hit? It isn't brain surgery.
Bagricula: It'll actually allow a lot more warfare tactics...like volleys of arrows
roadhouse: Serafina: so how do you avoid lag in the spear situation?
TheGood Reverend: yeah warfare tactics sure would be nice
Serafina: Yes, I see problems with it. I can see some grief playing with it. For example, how do you know who hit you? Do we let you look at the spear and then it is immediately identified as "TGR's spear" or do we make you look over at a crowd and try to figure it out?
Serafina: roadhouse... there are going to be some lag issues, no way getting around that. Combat and everything else worth anything is resolved on the server.
DavidQuick: you wouldnt see X hits you for # damage?
Bagricula: Hmm, would it be an instantaneous hit? Or would you take into account movement during the spear flight of the target for certain spears hitting and missing?
Serafina: DavidQuick... you could see... "You've been hit" or maybe you could see "TGR hit you" It will be qualitative... "You've been hit hard." "You've been scratched." "You were barely missed"
EolirinXianve: Serafina, I'd seriously suggest saying TGR hit you.
EolirinXianve: also, too much combat text spam is bad.
DavidQuick: Cool I would prefer "x hit you" rather then "X is attacking you".. I only care about the person who can hit me
Serafina: EolirinXianve... that's my question. Either way works... but which is more fun? Which creates more immersion, story, but most important, fun?
EolirinXianve: Knowing who hit you
EolirinXianve: otherwise people will work without retribution.
Serafina: DavidQuick... yes, well maybe they are trying to attack you but didn't hit you because they missed. If they missed, it will give you a defensive advantage which I think is good.
Bagricula: I think an anonymous hit would better facilitate assasins
Serafina: but then there is the argument everyone has for remaining anonymous.
Serafina: You can't have anonymous names and still have "TGR hit you."
EolirinXianve: Bag, yes, but unfortunately you have to also take into account the fact that assassins who run around killing all the craftsman causes problems.
Serafina: Those two don't work together.

Karmabirds Gone?
TheGood Reverend: until the karmabirds divebomb them!
Serafina: No, karma birds are not in the game right now. There is a small, tiny possibiliy that we will take them out due to pressure from the anti-karma bird coalition
DavidQuick: Good they suck, just make a karma system
EolirinXianve: "You sense that this person has caused much bloodshed"
TheGood Reverend: like you look at someone and it gives a vague description on their karma rating
Bagricula: What's the current incarnation of the karma bird system? How's the game calculate your innocence level? Like if you're very wealthy but not politically active do you have a high or low risk rating for calling a karma bird?
Serafina: EolirinXianve... yes, I think that is a good idea.
Serafina: wealth doesn't have anything to do with it. politics and career choice is the greatest influence
Bagricula: What does? How's the game recognize career choice?
Serafina: That kind of a system I haven't seen done yet, so if it turns out not to work, we'll change it.
Serafina: career choice = actions, faction membership, trade choices, political alignment
Serafina: there is no way for us to determine subjective things, so we have to stay with what a computer can easily identify
Serafina: Remember, we will be in the game playing. I mean, as much as I love you all, we are building this game so we can play it :-)
Serafina: so, you will definitely see a bit of a bias toward the sort of things we like to do in games
Bagricula: Hmm, how would you factor Karma into wars and such? Would the karma birds try to prevent soldiers from killing the peasantry?
Serafina: Bagricula... frankly, we haven't completely sorted that one out yet.
Serafina: Since armies are the last thing to be implemented, we still have some time.
Serafina: We are focusing on the individual stuff first. Well, that and actually making sure a billion people can make it into one world... hehe

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